Why Forgive?

Why can it feel so hard to forgive others or to forgive yourself? Do I have to forgive? This week Dez & Carlos tackle these questions and more.

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Why Forgive

dez: [00:00:00] Hey everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of Walk the Talk with Des Carlos. Hey everyone. So if you did not get a chance, go back and listen to our last week's episode where we talked about the process. It was actually a really good conversation. Um, so if you didn't go ahead and check that out, but this week.

We are gonna have a really good conversation on the topic of forgiveness. Forgiveness, yes. So we're gonna call this one. Why forgive? Because this is something that a lot of people have a hard time with, whether it's forgiving someone else, whether it's forgiving themselves. Yeah. And we just kind of want to jump into this and talk a little bit about.

Our experiences and what God has taught us throughout the years and how to walk this out. 

Los: Mm-hmm. The Bible has a lot to say about this topic. A lot. I mean, if it wasn't for Jesus, we wouldn't be forgiven. Yep. You know, he took the penalty for our sins and was able to forgive us. [00:01:00] Yeah. Forgiveness is, is such a sweet thing when you, when you are on the receiving end of it.

Mm-hmm. But when you have to do it, it's not easy. It's not, 

dez: it's not, you know. But I like what you said. And I think I'll just start with that is Jesus is, I mean, Jesus is our ultimate example in every way. Mm-hmm. Every part of life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like there's, everything that we go through, we can, we can look at Jesus' example and look at, you know, the way that he handled things, his character, everything.

And when I think about forgiveness, I think about that moment on the cross. When he was dying. Mm-hmm. Hanging from the cross saying, father, forgive them. Yeah. For the know, not what they do like that. I know a lot of people in church culture probably. It's like, you've heard that forever, but if you really think about that Hmm.

You really put yourself in that place. Imagine what that must have been like. The whole world condemned him. The whole world. All these people put him on that cross. Yep. And he still loved them and chose to forgive them. Yeah. [00:02:00] He could have very easily been like strict all down, but that's not his nature, you know?

Mm-hmm. And so when we have moments where we are struggling to forgive, that's the best thing to do is look back at Jesus' example and say, wow, if Jesus could forgive everybody for what we all did to him, who am I? Excuse me, to hold this against anybody. So right 

Los: off the top, I can think of something that I hear often about this topic.

You know, a lot of people have difficulty forgiving themselves. Mm. And they think that their past forgiveness, that there's, they've committed the unpardonable sin, that they've lived a life so sinful or whatever, that um, they can't receive forgiveness from the Lord and. The Bible is clear that that is not true.

If you look at one John chapter one, verse nine, it says, but if we freely admit our sins, [00:03:00] that's the key right there. If we freely admit our sins, when his light uncovers them, In other words, when the Lord tells you, look, this thing that you've been doing or this lifestyle that you've been having or living is not right, he says, when his light uncovers them, he will be faithful to forgive us every time God is just to forgive our sins because of Christ.

It's because of him and it says, and he will continue to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That's it. 

dez: I love that. That's so good. You said something there, um, the impart sin. Mm-hmm. The one thing that the Bible says, the, what is it? Blaspheming of the Holy Spirit. That's the one unforgivable sin. Yeah. I recently heard, I can't remember who it was that was talking about that, and I love the way that they put it because, They were saying that they, at one point in their life [00:04:00] had said, God, you know, they felt like, have I blasphemed you?

Am I forgiven? You know? Mm-hmm. Because the enemy will try to put so many crazy thoughts in your head, but the Lord showed him that he looks at the heart, he knows our heart. Mm-hmm. And if somebody, you can tell when somebody has just blasphemed God that way, that they just, their life is completely against God.

Yeah. That they have no remorse. They have no, you can just, you can see it. Yeah. And God knows that. You know, so we might sin we have all messed up at one time or another in our lives, or we will. Yeah. We're human. Yeah. But God, when we have that heart that we actually want. To do. Right. We want to to be who God wants us to be.

Mm-hmm. We don't want to 

Los: know. We don't want to sin. Yes. Then that there's evidence there that you fear God. Exactly. When you don't 

dez: want to sin, when you fear God, that's it. And if you have that, [00:05:00] you're not going to blaspheme God. Mm-hmm. That's not, so if you ever struggle with that, because people have struggled with that.

Right. People are just like, oh, I have I done that. You know, maybe I'm just unforgiven. Mm-hmm. And. Like I said, God knows our hearts and having that fear of God is the biggest thing. Mm-hmm. Holding onto that yeah. Is huge. Yeah. Can I ask you something? Talking about forgiving yourself, why do you think some people have such a hard time to forgive themselves?

Los: Uh, geez. There's so many ways to answer this. Sometimes. In their upbringing, if they had a mother or father that was really hard on them. Mm. That completely distorts the view of that person. And they tend to see God through that filter that's so good and think that no matter what they do, [00:06:00] they're no good, or they can't do enough good, or they can't be forgiven for this, that, or the other.

dez: Wow. I like that. That is actually really, really good. I 

Los: mean, and that's just one example of many. That's a very extreme example, but I, yeah, I know that I've heard so many countless stories like that. Mm-hmm. I think Joyce Meyer struggled for a time. Yep. You know, 

dez: with that. Yeah. What has your experience been with that?

Like, what has, what has kept you in a place of. Forgiving your being unable to forgive yourself in the 

Los: past? In the past, um, it's almost close to what I said. I was raised by a single mom. It's not that she didn't forgive me, but I was raised without a father, and it's something what the absence of a father can do in a child.

Wow. I never thought of that. You know, I know rejection [00:07:00] is connected to that. You know, a child can tend to reject themselves Mm. And think they're not good enough. Wow. That makes a lot of sense. You know, and, and in their minds, it, it is weird how children come to this conclusion, but in their minds, they, they can say, well, you know, maybe I didn't deserve a father.

Mm-hmm. Maybe I did a bad thing a lot. There's, there's countless statistics that are connected to how a child's. Self-image is tainted because of the absence of one parent or another, or 

dez: both. Yep. That's something I never thought about that, but I, I can relate to what you said about a parent being too hard on you.

Mm-hmm. Because I feel like that was the case with me. Mm-hmm. My dad's changed a whole lot over the years. Mm-hmm. And I know my dad loves me, but when we were growing up, it was very hard because, [00:08:00] It was like if, if I dropped something I might get yelled at. Yeah. If I did something wrong, I might get yelled at.

So it created, it actually made me more clumsy, which is kind of crazy. Yeah. Like here I was trying to, trying not to be clumsy, but because I, it would make me so nervous. Yeah. I would drop things and so, Anytime I messed up, I had this, always had this inner voice like, what's wrong with you? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You know, why can't you do that? Right? Yeah. And so when it came time for me in my life times where I really messed up badly, it took me years at one point to learn to forgive 

Los: myself. Yeah. Those are, those are wounds that go deep. They do, they go very deep and they really do. It really takes the love of the father.

You know, a relationship with the father. It does. And allowing him to heal those 

dez: things. Yes. Because wow. I'm thinking we should, we should talk about father wounds one of these days. That's a deep one we could go into. Yeah. But anyways, [00:09:00] just, just brushing on it with what you just said. That's true because I know for myself, Even in that, even in finding a real relationship with God the father, it took me a long time and I had to press past all that because I had a preconceived notion of what a father was like based on my earthly father.

Mm-hmm. And no earthly father's perfect. You know, there's always gonna be something that they lack, but in my case, I felt like God was this stern. Not emotionally close father, that just was gonna be distant. But deep down is like, I, I knew somehow that that wasn't right. Mm-hmm. But I had to chase after that.

Mm-hmm. And I had to, I had to like really see what was there. Yeah. And realize that I had a, I had a tainted view of a father and I had to be willing to let that go so that I could really know him [00:10:00] as father. Yeah. And that's when he was able to come into my heart and heal those areas. Yeah. And show me, like you said, that I didn't have to be perfect.

Yeah. That I didn't have to do everything perfect. That he actually had grace. Mm-hmm. And he loved me beyond what I did and what I did did not define who I was. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that took a lot. It took, it took a long time for me. Yeah. Because of, like you said, sometimes you have to go back and undo those things, those mm-hmm.

Those ways of, like those, because it creates like whole ways of thinking without you realizing it as a kid. Yeah, absolutely. And you carry that into your adulthood if you don't know better. 

Los: One of the things that kind of goes with what we're already talking about is forgiving others. You know, sometimes we struggle.

To forgive others because we ourselves are wounded. Yes. And have not received forgiveness. 

dez: That is so true. That [00:11:00] one verse. I'm sure everybody, if you are a believer or you know the, the Bible at all, this is popular verse. I don't know if you have it down, babe, but I'm gonna read this one where Jesus is talking.

To the disciples and they're asking about forgiveness. Mm-hmm. And Peter approaches Jesus here, it's Matthew 1821. He says, it says later, Peter approached Jesus and said, how many times do I have to forgive my fellow believer who keeps offending me? Mm-hmm. Seven times Jesus answers not seven times Peter, but 70 times, seven times.

Mm-hmm. And so it's funny because, I mean, obviously it's, it's not like you just do the math and that's the only amount of times that you forgive. He's, it's basically like, You, it's, there's no, there's no limit. Like 

Los: Right. He's trying to say continuously forgive. Exactly. Forgiveness is should be 

dez: endless.

Exactly. And the thing with forgiveness, it's crazy because I've been on that side where I have held unforgiveness towards someone and I remember what that felt like, and, [00:12:00] and it's so, Gross. Mm-hmm. Like, it creates such a root of bitterness. Mm-hmm. If you're 

Los: not careful. Yeah. Yeah. And I've, I've been there myself.

Yeah. Yeah. 

dez: I've watched people though in my life that I've watched people who have refused to forgive, or the crazy thing is sometimes if you have been in that condition for so long, You become blinded to it. Yeah. And you don't even realize that you're holding onto unforgiveness. Right. Because what happens is you get this thing like you have a right.

Mm-hmm. It's like, oh, I have a right to hold onto this. Mm-hmm. I have a right because this person did this to me. Mm-hmm. This person did that to me. They hurt me. Yeah. But we have all been hurt. Like we first started talking about Jesus. We all hurt Jesus. Yeah, 

Los: yeah. Correct. And he forgives and he forgave us and he did nothing wrong.

dez: Exactly. Yeah. So it's like when you think about that and you think [00:13:00] about the fact that, why hold onto it. Yeah. I'll tell you what. Holding onto unforgiveness takes so much more energy than letting go. Absolutely. It really does. Like it takes so much energy to hold onto something and the anger that goes with it and all the negative emotions and it jacks up your body on top of that.

Yeah. Like 

Los: you're, you're really setting yourself free when 

dez: you forgive. Yes, exactly. That's the, the thing is, People think that it's like, it's funny because I think holding unforgiveness towards somebody is doing something to that other person. Meanwhile, the other person's going on with their life, they have no idea.

No idea. They don't care at all. They're doing their thing. And you're here in this mental torment. Mm-hmm. Like, look at this person. Yeah. And it's funny because you can get so caught up with it that you don't even see it. You can be so blinded to the fact that, yeah. It's not worth it. 

Los: Yeah. I see it as, um, in my life.

It's [00:14:00] a, I guess for lack of better terms, a skill that every believer has to learn to do. Yeah. We have to learn to forgive. Mm-hmm. And I had to, in my personal walk, I had to learn to forgive. I didn't know how to. Mm-hmm. And um, yes, I had to ask God. To help me. That's so good. Yep. I remember when I started it was hard.

Yes. And the Lord had me open my mouth. Yep. And say it out loud. I forgive this person. I release this person. Yes. I release everything that they've done to me. I do not hold it against them. Yep. And there's something very powerful that happens. In the spiritual realm. When you do that, you are releasing and it has nothing to do with how you feel.

You still That's right. Feel the anger. Yep. Talk about that. You still feel the the hurt, but when you release that person before the Lord [00:15:00] healing comes in. That's right. Healing comes in and then, and then you will see that the Lord will heal that bitterness. Mm-hmm. He will heal and remove that bitterness.

Yes. And sometimes this takes time and other moments you will find that you have to continue to release that person. Yes. Because the enemy will try to bring that back. Mm-hmm. It's like, what do you mean you forgive that, that person, you know? Yes. Can't you see what he did? Don't you remember what he did to you?

Yeah. Or she did to you or what they said? Yeah. And you have to release them again. It's like, nope, no devil. I released these people. I released that person. I will not hold on to hurt. Yes, I will not hold on to bitterness. I released this before the Lord. Mm-hmm. And that's that. And again, it's almost like a, a gift or an art form that we have to learn to do, a skillset that we have to learn to do.

In order to experience freedom for ourselves. That's right. Because we're really releasing ourselves [00:16:00] when we do that. 

dez: Yes. I'm glad that you said that because that's one of the questions that I've been asked a lot myself in my life is how do you forgive? Mm-hmm. And you said it perfectly, and I love that you said that sometimes you have to do it over and over, and especially if it's something big.

Mm-hmm. Like I remember in my experience, it was the same way like. It was big things that I had to forgive. Mm-hmm. And the thing is, when it's a big thing that, like a deep heart mm-hmm. It can take time. It's not gonna be something that you're just gonna be like, boom, I forgive you. Yes. This, everything's perfect and wonderful.

You're right. Right. You're gonna have the feelings. Yep. The thing is, it's a choice. You choose. Absolutely. You choose to forgive. It's not a BA based on your feelings. Like you, you mentioned your feelings. It's not based on your feelings. Right. You can't say, I'm gonna wake up one day and I'm gonna feel like I forgive.

It has nothing to do with that. Right, exactly. A complete choice that you're saying, okay, you know what? I know God. This is what you are telling me that I have to do. This is how I have to live, [00:17:00] so I choose to forgive. Yeah, and the thing too, to add to that is, It's okay to walk through the emotions. And what I mean by that, if somebody hurts you really big, really deeply, it's gonna hurt.

Mm-hmm. You're gonna feel it. Mm-hmm. You're gonna feel the sadness, you're gonna feel the anger, you're gonna feel all the emotions. It's okay to acknowledge those things. Yeah. And if you have to get a therapist or counselor or just a, somebody that you can trust to talk to and let that out and pray with you, or whatever you need to do, do that.

And if you don't have that, I mean, for me to be honest, it was Holy Spirit. Yeah. I ran to God and I was like, Lord, this makes me angry. This I fe, this hurts me. This broke my heart. Like I don't know what to do with this. And, and I found that the more that I did that and I let that out and I acknowledged it and let him heal that stuff.

Mm-hmm. It made it easier that I was choosing to forgive, but eventually, I wanted to mm-hmm. Eventually the emotions matched [00:18:00] up with the choice. Right, 

Los: right. You know, and talk about, um, forgiveness versus trust. 

dez: Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah. So the thing with forgiveness and trust, some people think that if just because you forgive somebody, that you automatically have to trust them, but that's not true.

Right. I've been in many moments in my life where I. Somebody has really hurt me or really done me wrong, and that person is not necessarily somebody that's has to be in my life. Mm-hmm. So I personally, some people are toxic. Yes. And you have to be discerning and be willing to see those things that I always say.

Ask God to show you the people that should be in your life, the people that you should be connected to. Mm-hmm. Because if you are really willing to let go and let God do that for you, he will remove people from your life. Yeah. And just because you have forgiven somebody does not mean [00:19:00] you have to let them back into that place.

If somebody has broken trust with you, trust has to be earned. Right. And if somebody has toxic patterns, If somebody is maybe, I don't know, maybe they're an addict. Yeah. You know, I've dealt with that with somebody who ha was addicted to drugs and kept coming back around asking for money and trying to build my trust so that they could, you know, take advantage of it in, in my life.

And Yeah. And that person was close to me. Mm-hmm. And it was very hard, but I had to, with God's help, I had to stand, put my foot down and say, you know what? I forgive this person. And I choose to love them. Mm-hmm. But I cannot trust them. Right. Right. And that's okay. Exactly. You have to be okay with that.

And you have to know that that's, that's okay. Trust is not, is not the same as forgiveness and they don't go hand in hand. Now I'll say it's different in the case where somebody is, somebody actually 

Los: repents and earns Exactly. [00:20:00] Earns your trust. Yes. And you can see the fruits of. The change in their 

dez: lives.

Exactly. And I'm gonna give a perfect example if, if it's okay, I'm gonna talk a little bit of marriage stuff Yeah. From us. Yeah. And a lot of people who have known us or listened to us for a minute know that Carlos went through, um, a really, really long period of time where he was addicted to pornography.

Mm-hmm. And that was really hard on our marriage. It almost took our marriage out many times. Mm-hmm. And I had to walk through forgiving Carlos. And there was times where. It's like I would forgive him, but it's like, it felt like we were going on this merry-go-round, just this crazy cycle. And I had to keep forgiving him and keep forgiving him.

And it got to the point where I, I remember running to God and being like, why do I have to keep forgiving him? Why can't he get his act together? Yeah. And like cuz because it hurt and because the thing is with us, like we've always been very, we're very close, you know, [00:21:00] he's al, he's my husband, he's. Been my best friend forever.

He's, you know, we're very close and so it hurt. It hurt really deep and it was, it was hard to, to really overcome that, especially, it's hard, it was hard for me as a wife, because here I am, it's like, okay, I'm choosing to forgive him. I'm choosing to love him, and then the hurts, it just keeps happening.

Mm-hmm. You know, and it's like the wound just keeps getting opened up. And I remember I had to. I had to walk through that with the Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit had to show me that. It's kind of crazy, but he gave me the example of God's people and how God is with his people. Wow. We always hurt him. Mm-hmm.

Somebody is always hurting God. Wow. But his love covers that. Wow. And his forgiveness. Is that great? And when he gave me that example, it just like, oh my God. It blew my mind. And, and I was bawling my eyes out and I was like, wow, God. [00:22:00] Okay. And it gave me a different look. Uh, the way to look at it. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and I realized he taught me through that as well through that whole time, that process that me standing by your side, because it would, it would've been different had you been unrepentant and you were just like, psh, I don't care.

You're gonna deal with what? With this, and you're gonna stay with me and you're my wife and I'm gonna do what I wanna do. Like you wasn't like that. I saw your heart. You, you genuinely wanted freedom. You genuinely were trying to do better, but. We had to get to the point where we got to the root of your problem.

Yeah. And that's what it was. I remember, 

Los: uh, yeah. On the final moments, just before we, we really started breaking through in this area. I had a hard time believing that I can get be free. I remember, 

dez: I remember, 

Los: I remember even telling you one time, why don't you just leave? I know. Because I could, I didn't believe I could get free from it.

Yep. I know. And, and you would not. I'm a little stubborn, which really shocked [00:23:00] me. It really did. It shocked me. But it said a lot about our marriage and, and it made me realize how we're stronger than we think we 

dez: are. Yeah, it's true. And I had to realize and see that. I had to stay with you and I wanted to stay with you because I realized that I was an instrument that God could use during that time to help you to come out of that place.

Yeah, and had I left, I don't know if things would've been the same. I'm not gonna go deep because there's some deep stuff there and there's some crazy things that God showed us, but. I knew that that was my place. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying that's for everybody because everybody's situation is different.

Exactly. You know, there are, there are many people who have, their marriages have been broken up by pornography, addictions. Mm-hmm. Sex addictions, and ended up in divorce and. I can't say that I don't understand. Right. Because like you said there, there were many times where we almost called it quiz. Yeah.

There were [00:24:00] many times where I was at my end and I would it, it was either a pastor at the time, or God himself, or a family member telling me, Desi, just stop and think. Don't go with your emotions because those emotions can be crazy. Yeah. But, but I thank God now when I look back, like I recently told you, I'm so thankful and grateful that we stayed.

Me too, because all of that that we went through as horrendous as it was at the time, and as hopeless as it felt, made us who we are. Mm-hmm. And it made us stronger. It built character and it made us see that, wow, we can go through these things and God can carry us through and we'll be okay. Yeah. And we're, and we're better for it now.

Yeah. You know, we fought for your freedom. I, I remember my position in that time was to pray. I would war over you and pray over you and annott your pillow at night and you know, and declare out loud who you were. Yeah, because I saw that [00:25:00] you didn't see that because that it broke you in such a horrible way.

It made you so like, just, it just tore you down. I remember. Hmm. And I remember God telling me, you need to build him up and you need to speak out of your mouth who he is and declare this. And that's going to, you're gonna see that. 

Los: Yeah. One of the, you know, one of the things that comes to me is forgiveness brings hope.

It does to that person you forgive, you know, Christ forgave us and it gave us hope. When you think about that for a moment, he forgave us all of our sins and that brought hope to our lives because we were hopeless. Yeah, we were in a, a lot of us, we were in a hopeless mess and didn't know how to come out of it, and he forgave us.

And I think about Hun, when you forgave me and I know I didn't deserve it. I just know I didn't deserve it. And that, that hope that came in and [00:26:00] made me realize like, wow, our marriage really has resilience. That gave me the strength I needed to really push through. Mm-hmm. And realize that, you know, we can come out of this.

Yeah. I can't fail, you know, I can't, I can't fail. I almost, I just like, I'm gonna tear up 

dez: that it's deep. It's something when you go back to those moments, cuz it's, there was a lot. But, um, I think, I think that it's, that's such a good example for people, you know, and it doesn't mean that it's always gonna be something so huge.

Sometimes it's bigger. Sometimes, sometimes somebody has done something really horrendous. Hmm. You know, I've witnessed people forgive the person who has like murdered their son or something, and that blows my mind. Yeah. I'm like, wow. Talk about like God's love. That is the 

Los: love of God. 

dez: For sure. It [00:27:00] has to be because that's, that's like the one of the biggest things that somebody could ever do to somebody.

Yeah. You know? But again, what did Jesus do? Mm-hmm. God forgave all of us. Yep. And it's just amazing because forgiveness is such an amazing thing. Like you said, it does bring hope. It brings hope. It shows God's love. And like you said, I mean, none of us deserves forgiveness. Mm-hmm. That's the, that's the reality.

None of us deserves it. All of us were doomed to hell. But Jesus saved us. Amen. And because he's our greatest example in everything, that's what, that's what we need to do. That's how we need to be with other people. And I'll tell you what, when you choose that life and you choose to forgive, it becomes easier.

Mm-hmm. It does. It becomes easier where you, you learn how to get past your [00:28:00] emotions. You learn how to, you know, not get stuck. Yep. And make the choice quicker. And like you said, sometimes you have to keep making the choice when it's, if you're just starting to really walk this out and realizing, and if you're listening to this and something is coming up and you're feeling like, man, this person, maybe I should forgive them.

Yes. I'm telling you right now, that's a yes because. Uh, you know, we can go back and forth in our minds. Mm-hmm. But Holy Spirit will let you know. Yeah. You'll, that person will just randomly come into your mind and you'll feel, and you'll know it. Yeah. It's like you just have this thing like, man, maybe I should forgive them.

If, if that comes in your mind at all concerning anybody, the answer is yes. Mm-hmm. God wants you to forgive that person. Yeah. Set yourself 

Los: free. Exactly. And release that person. Yep. Release '

dez: em. Exactly. It's not worth it. And like we said, it's a choice that you continuously make, and it does not mean they deserve it.[00:29:00] 

It does not mean that that person has to have a a, a place in your life again, but you choosing to forgive them, you set yourself free. And you will thank yourself and it not only that, it draws you closer to God because the thing is, is unforgiveness becomes a wall. It keeps you from God. Mm-hmm. That intimate place with God.

You cannot enter that intimate place with God if you have unforgiveness. Towards anybody. It will hinder you. It will hinder your walk with God, your ability to be close to him, to hear him clearly. All of that unforgiveness is, is it seems like it's such a small thing, but it really is not. Mm-hmm.

Unforgiveness is huge. It is. Do you have anything else? 

Los: I'm just going to reread, um, that first I read first John chapter one, verse nine. I just feel to do that. Yeah. But if we freely admit our sins, when his light uncovers them, he will be faithful to forgive us every time. [00:30:00] God is just to forgive us our sins because of Christ, and he will continue to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

My God, 

dez: I think that's a perfect place to end. So I just wanna say if anybody does struggle with this, Just know that you can do it. God gives you the strength. Yes, God will help you. And if you need help, find somebody to, to talk to. Find somebody to pray with you. But God will help you and you can walk it out.

You can forgive that person. They might not, they might not deserve it. Mm-hmm. And that's okay. Do it for yourself. Set yourself free. And 

Los: don't do it in your power. Do it in the Lord's strength. 

dez: Exactly. All right. Well, we love everybody out there that is listening and we hope that you have a great rest of your week.

Los: God bless.